STELLAR RECORDINGS
- Thread starter Zing
- Start date
A buddy of mine who runs Blueberry Buddha Studios recommended a few of his favorite recordings on my musician's forum, and I'm liking this one a LOT:
Some sounds I wouldn't expect on an EH disk, synth pads and bass, lots of atmospherics/reverb, and the drums are recorded very well. Really digging this!
Some sounds I wouldn't expect on an EH disk, synth pads and bass, lots of atmospherics/reverb, and the drums are recorded very well. Really digging this!
Dennie
Well-Known Member
A fantastic remaster! :bow-blue:
It's like Miles, Red and John are standing in the room with you....
LINKY---> http://www.amazon.com/Relaxin-Miles...8306121&sr=1-18&keywords=miles+davis+relaxin'
Relaxin' with the Miles Davis Quintet -- 20 Bit K2 Remastered CD
Miles Davis- John Coltrane - Red Garland - Paul Chambers - Philly Joe Jones
1956/2001 Prestige/Fantasy Records
A classic from the Prestige series April 23, 2001
By A Customer
Format:Audio CD
Relaxin' is the second release from the classic prestige series in which Davis and company worked furiously to complete the requisite number of albums under contract so Davis could reunite with Gil Evans at Columbia. In fact, Davis can be heard on the first track telling the control room, "I'll play it and tell you what it is later." This set was recorded in single takes with no alternates. It is one of the best collections of Davis on muted trumpet and listeners get an early glimpse of the potential of John Coltrane. Red Garland (piano), Paul Chambers (bass) and Philly Jo Jones (drums) are solid throughout. As the title suggests, this is a great disc to relax to.
"If I Were A Bell" (Frank Loesser) – 8:15
"You're My Everything" (Harry Warren) – 5:18
"I Could Write a Book" (Richard Rodgers) – 5:09
"Oleo" (Sonny Rollins) – 6:18
"It Could Happen to You" (Jimmy van Heusen) – 6:37
"Woody 'n' You" (Dizzy Gillespie) – 5:02
It's like Miles, Red and John are standing in the room with you....
LINKY---> http://www.amazon.com/Relaxin-Miles...8306121&sr=1-18&keywords=miles+davis+relaxin'
Relaxin' with the Miles Davis Quintet -- 20 Bit K2 Remastered CD
Miles Davis- John Coltrane - Red Garland - Paul Chambers - Philly Joe Jones
1956/2001 Prestige/Fantasy Records
A classic from the Prestige series April 23, 2001
By A Customer
Format:Audio CD
Relaxin' is the second release from the classic prestige series in which Davis and company worked furiously to complete the requisite number of albums under contract so Davis could reunite with Gil Evans at Columbia. In fact, Davis can be heard on the first track telling the control room, "I'll play it and tell you what it is later." This set was recorded in single takes with no alternates. It is one of the best collections of Davis on muted trumpet and listeners get an early glimpse of the potential of John Coltrane. Red Garland (piano), Paul Chambers (bass) and Philly Jo Jones (drums) are solid throughout. As the title suggests, this is a great disc to relax to.
"If I Were A Bell" (Frank Loesser) – 8:15
"You're My Everything" (Harry Warren) – 5:18
"I Could Write a Book" (Richard Rodgers) – 5:09
"Oleo" (Sonny Rollins) – 6:18
"It Could Happen to You" (Jimmy van Heusen) – 6:37
"Woody 'n' You" (Dizzy Gillespie) – 5:02
bscene-drinkingcheers:
:text-link:
I've been on this MoFi kick lately and I'm lovin' it! I must have 20-30 titles now but this Marshall Crenshaw disc stands out...even among other MoFi titles...and I think that says something.
This is related to Zing's previous post. When I was at his place, we sampled some of these MoFi releases. They sounded great. But Zing's got a good system, so lots of stuff sounds great... So I ordered one of these that was music I liked - Pirates by Rickie Lee Jones - and that I had an original CD of for comparison. Here's the story, it's a little long with some mis-steps on my part, but bear with me.
I got the MoFi SACD a few days ago, immediately put it in, and was disappointed to see that my pre/pro (onkyo 885) said the dsd was only 2.0 channel @ 44.1kHz. So why even bother to make an SACD out of it then? (This was a mistake, or at least misinformation, I'll get back to it in a minute.) Subsequently, I figured if that was the resolution of the DSD stream, then the CD layer of the hybrid SACD must be exactly the same, so I just ripped the CD layer into my squeezebox and did my initial comparisons that way since I could conveniently set up playlists alternating tracks from both versions of the album.
I was disappointed. And was surprised that in fact the MoFi tracks seemed even *more* compressed than those on the regular CD, just based on volume level. But there wasn't anything I could point to that made me like the MoFi version any better. And I listened carefully with both my speakers and headphones. Not really any discernible difference. So why the hell did I just spend $30 on this thing? I was irritated. And wondering if it was my ears and/or my systems at fault, or if MoFi and SACD was just snake oil.
Today I decided to check some of my other SACDs because I was sure some had higher sampling rates. My 885 says 44.1kHz for all of them. WTF? I don't know why it says that, but I think now, especially after reading the description of DSD more carefully, that it doesn't have a variable sampling frequency with the same meaning as that of PCM (used by a regular CD, and I guess by other formats on BD and such).
So maybe this 44.1kHz thing was a big red herring. I decided to compare (as I arguably should have done in the first place if I hadn't gotten off track) the SACD with the CD, swapping physical discs in my sony SACD/BD/CD player. Immediately I noticed that indeed, the SACD version now seemed less compressed - e.g. I had to turn up the volume higher with the SACD to get the same approximate volume level. No I didn't use a SPL meter or anything, but the difference is like 5dB, pretty obvious.
(FYI the regular CD played at the same volume level as (digital) playback through squeezebox, and the CD layer from the hybrid SACD, played either through the squeezebox or through the sony (changing settings to force it to play the CD layer), was louder than both. Why did MoFi apparently compress the CD layer so much? Dunno.)
Anyway, NOW comparing the SACD to the CD, there is certainly some difference. I'm not gonna descend into audio-phool jargon, let's just say it's more dynamic; loud, short sounds like drums or snaps or even the way Rickie sings sometimes (she has such a unique vocal style), sound clearer and less fatiguing. It's not night and day. And I fully admit, I WANT to hear a difference. But yeah, I'll stick my neck out and say that the SACD is better.
And, I think ultimately more importantly, listening to these tracks with great care over and over, I have an increased appreciation for the musical artistry of this album. It's really damn good stuff, regardless of how you're hearing it in the end.
So, thanks Zing, this has been a valuable experiment. Not sure I'm gonna buy a ton of these at $30 each, but yeah, this album deserves a place in this thread.
:text-link:
I got the MoFi SACD a few days ago, immediately put it in, and was disappointed to see that my pre/pro (onkyo 885) said the dsd was only 2.0 channel @ 44.1kHz. So why even bother to make an SACD out of it then? (This was a mistake, or at least misinformation, I'll get back to it in a minute.) Subsequently, I figured if that was the resolution of the DSD stream, then the CD layer of the hybrid SACD must be exactly the same, so I just ripped the CD layer into my squeezebox and did my initial comparisons that way since I could conveniently set up playlists alternating tracks from both versions of the album.
I was disappointed. And was surprised that in fact the MoFi tracks seemed even *more* compressed than those on the regular CD, just based on volume level. But there wasn't anything I could point to that made me like the MoFi version any better. And I listened carefully with both my speakers and headphones. Not really any discernible difference. So why the hell did I just spend $30 on this thing? I was irritated. And wondering if it was my ears and/or my systems at fault, or if MoFi and SACD was just snake oil.
Today I decided to check some of my other SACDs because I was sure some had higher sampling rates. My 885 says 44.1kHz for all of them. WTF? I don't know why it says that, but I think now, especially after reading the description of DSD more carefully, that it doesn't have a variable sampling frequency with the same meaning as that of PCM (used by a regular CD, and I guess by other formats on BD and such).
So maybe this 44.1kHz thing was a big red herring. I decided to compare (as I arguably should have done in the first place if I hadn't gotten off track) the SACD with the CD, swapping physical discs in my sony SACD/BD/CD player. Immediately I noticed that indeed, the SACD version now seemed less compressed - e.g. I had to turn up the volume higher with the SACD to get the same approximate volume level. No I didn't use a SPL meter or anything, but the difference is like 5dB, pretty obvious.
(FYI the regular CD played at the same volume level as (digital) playback through squeezebox, and the CD layer from the hybrid SACD, played either through the squeezebox or through the sony (changing settings to force it to play the CD layer), was louder than both. Why did MoFi apparently compress the CD layer so much? Dunno.)
Anyway, NOW comparing the SACD to the CD, there is certainly some difference. I'm not gonna descend into audio-phool jargon, let's just say it's more dynamic; loud, short sounds like drums or snaps or even the way Rickie sings sometimes (she has such a unique vocal style), sound clearer and less fatiguing. It's not night and day. And I fully admit, I WANT to hear a difference. But yeah, I'll stick my neck out and say that the SACD is better.
And, I think ultimately more importantly, listening to these tracks with great care over and over, I have an increased appreciation for the musical artistry of this album. It's really damn good stuff, regardless of how you're hearing it in the end.
So, thanks Zing, this has been a valuable experiment. Not sure I'm gonna buy a ton of these at $30 each, but yeah, this album deserves a place in this thread.
:text-link:
One thing to remember Pauly, is that most of those MoFi disks are DSD recordings of the original tapes, be it the original multi-track or the original stereo master. Tape itself compresses a signal somewhat, plus you lose some high-frequency info, even more so as the tape ages.
You might look into AIX Records, http://www.aixrecords.com. They refuse to release "High Fidelity" recordings of 25-year old classic albums that were originally done on tape; they record artists in AIX's own studios, direct to the Bluray audio format, with no compression, digital effects, or subsequent mixing (all mixing is done "live" as the performers play, to 5.1 Surround). As such, they won't offer any "classic albums" or even big-name artists, although Rita Coolidge, Albert Lee and Mark Chesnutt have done albums with them. They've done a fair amount of classical works too, which I know you like.
The disks I have feature two different mixes, a "stage" mix where the different instruments come out of different speakers (like you're sitting in the middle of the band as they play), and an "audience" mix where the three front speakers mimic the performers on the stage in front of you, and the back speakers carry more hall reverb and echo (I prefer this mix usually).
Pick up one of their Sampler disks, I bet you'd like their stuff! :music-listening:
You might look into AIX Records, http://www.aixrecords.com. They refuse to release "High Fidelity" recordings of 25-year old classic albums that were originally done on tape; they record artists in AIX's own studios, direct to the Bluray audio format, with no compression, digital effects, or subsequent mixing (all mixing is done "live" as the performers play, to 5.1 Surround). As such, they won't offer any "classic albums" or even big-name artists, although Rita Coolidge, Albert Lee and Mark Chesnutt have done albums with them. They've done a fair amount of classical works too, which I know you like.
The disks I have feature two different mixes, a "stage" mix where the different instruments come out of different speakers (like you're sitting in the middle of the band as they play), and an "audience" mix where the three front speakers mimic the performers on the stage in front of you, and the back speakers carry more hall reverb and echo (I prefer this mix usually).
Pick up one of their Sampler disks, I bet you'd like their stuff! :music-listening:
Great post, Paul.
Very little in this hobby offers a "night-and-day" difference and these Mobile Fidelity titles are no different (no pun intended). I too was disappointed in my first couple of titles. The very first one I bought, I just assumed because it was a Hybrid SACD, it would contain a multichannel layer. It didn't. And the second title I bought, I was hoping for that "night-and-day" difference in clarity and/or sound quality over its CD counterpart. Again, it wasn't there. That is to say, it wasn't immediately noticeable.
It wasn't until I directly compared the CD to the Mofi SACD (as you did - physical disc vs physical disc) that I noticed the first difference. The more I compared, the more differences I heard and the more obvious they became. Two of the more discernible differences I notice are 1) the stereo separation seems greater and 2) more often than not the soundstage seems more detailed (perhaps they're related).
Admittedly, $30 for a "CD" isn't for everyone. Less so if you're double-dipping. But as I mentioned to you when you were here, I actually get off on the ritual of playing these discs due to their unique packaging. It just makes me feel like I'm playing something special. And now that I know what to listen for, I'm convinced I am playing something special.
Very little in this hobby offers a "night-and-day" difference and these Mobile Fidelity titles are no different (no pun intended). I too was disappointed in my first couple of titles. The very first one I bought, I just assumed because it was a Hybrid SACD, it would contain a multichannel layer. It didn't. And the second title I bought, I was hoping for that "night-and-day" difference in clarity and/or sound quality over its CD counterpart. Again, it wasn't there. That is to say, it wasn't immediately noticeable.
It wasn't until I directly compared the CD to the Mofi SACD (as you did - physical disc vs physical disc) that I noticed the first difference. The more I compared, the more differences I heard and the more obvious they became. Two of the more discernible differences I notice are 1) the stereo separation seems greater and 2) more often than not the soundstage seems more detailed (perhaps they're related).
Admittedly, $30 for a "CD" isn't for everyone. Less so if you're double-dipping. But as I mentioned to you when you were here, I actually get off on the ritual of playing these discs due to their unique packaging. It just makes me feel like I'm playing something special. And now that I know what to listen for, I'm convinced I am playing something special.
This is a real issue for listeners. Today when they compress music, they push up the average levels to the absolute limit of the system by cutting off the dynamic peaks. AND, the smart programmers have developed algorithms which cut off the peaks in the digital domain such that it is harder for the listener to tell they have been cut off versus the old analog compressors which were more obvious to the listener. So, the term we use today is no longer compressing but increasing the "Loudness". This is a great capability because 100% of the time when presented with two music tracks the one which is just a tiny bit louder sounding will always be perceived as better sounding - at least on initial reaction.
So, a 100W amp can be pushed to 100W RMS and not need 6dB of overhead (400W) to handle the peaks because there are no peaks anymore.
To play on a level field, a truly high dynamic recording will need to have the average level boosted significantly to match the average level of a modern "loud" recording. Often you'll need to boost over 10dB to get the average levels to match. That's huge, because the dynamic recording still has dynamic peaks which are much louder than the average, so the amp you are using and the speakers you own must be able to keep up with the peaks.
So, if you are boosting the dynamic recording by 10dB to sound as loud as the compressed "loud" recording, you need 10x the power with speakers that can produce 10dB more SPL to play all of the dynamic recording.
Think about that!
If you need 50W to play a modern compressed "loud" song and you have to boost the classic dynamic version of that same song by 10dB, you'll need a 500W amp.
So, a 100W amp can be pushed to 100W RMS and not need 6dB of overhead (400W) to handle the peaks because there are no peaks anymore.
To play on a level field, a truly high dynamic recording will need to have the average level boosted significantly to match the average level of a modern "loud" recording. Often you'll need to boost over 10dB to get the average levels to match. That's huge, because the dynamic recording still has dynamic peaks which are much louder than the average, so the amp you are using and the speakers you own must be able to keep up with the peaks.
So, if you are boosting the dynamic recording by 10dB to sound as loud as the compressed "loud" recording, you need 10x the power with speakers that can produce 10dB more SPL to play all of the dynamic recording.
Think about that!
If you need 50W to play a modern compressed "loud" song and you have to boost the classic dynamic version of that same song by 10dB, you'll need a 500W amp.
I think I have about five MoFi SACD disks, and the Pirates disk is the only one I'd buy again (but, again, thats a record that I'm extremely fond of). The others (Doobies' Captain and Me was one of them) weren't really worth the money.Zing said:
I have that affliction too, especially with the MoFi vinyl releases. I got my first "serious" stereo in 1979 (Shure V15 Type V cartridge, Yamaha amplification, "New" Advent speakers, very carefully tweaked position-wise) and during the summers (I was in college at the time) I worked construction, and every week I'd cash my check, deposit most of it for the next college year, but withheld gas and taco money, plus $15 each week for a premium piece of vinyl, usually MoFi, Sheffield Labs, TelArc, and Lee Ritenour did some fantastic "direct-to-disk" vinyl releases on JVC (the band had to play an entire album side in real time, while being mixed, real time, and one guy had to manually advance the disk cutter for the LP master as the music went by, and signal the band frantically if he started running out of room before the band was finished!).
It was a "ritual". :bow-blue: You'd pull out the album, then slide the inner cardboard sleeve out of the outer sleeve, and then remove the special paper or plastic sleeve that actually contained the vinyl. Slide that out, holding the edges along the fingertips and the label against your thumb, and then plop it onto the turntable. Three drops of distilled water on the "Discwasher" brush with the walnut handle, spread the water with the heel of the bottle along a thin line, then rotate the vinyl manually as you wet it with the brush, then slowly rotate the dry area of the brush to pick up any dust or particles. Carefully clean the needle on the Shure (with the amp muted, of course), drop into the lead-in grooves, unmute, and settle back for some audio.
Ahhh. Think I'll play me some vinyl tonight! :music-listening:
^ I completely agree. I have some - despite my earlier comments - that simply are not worth what I paid. Eh. Shit happens. But the ones that are worth it make up for the ones that aren't. The first to come to mind are the Foreigner titles, in particular, their very first, self titled album. Despite being nearly 40 years old, it sounds like it was recorded yesterday.
I picked up the following disc(s):Botch said:
It's a dual disc set: one CD and one BD Audio.
The differences between the Stage and Audience mixes are quite noticeable but what I've found is that I prefer the Stage mix on some songs and the Audience mix others. Some of the Stage mixes - while having more noticeable surround sound effects - also have a gritty, dirty quality to them which I do not like at all. So I'll switch to the Audience mix and enjoy it much more. Then another song will play and it seems dull and lifeless so I'll switch to the Stage mix and it comes to life but without the dirt and grit that bothered me in the previous song.
I have another one coming tomorrow (Ali Isabella). It'll be interesting to see if the same thing applies that that disc as well.